This document, translated from the original French, is an edited transcript of a conversation between the Senegalese painter Iba Ndiaye, the French art historian Jean Laude, and a moderator, Roger Pillaudin. It took place on the occasion of the Festival des arts et cultures africaines in Royan, France (March 1977), and was later broadcast on the radio channel France Culture. What stands out in the conversation is the way Laude seeks to negate Ndiaye's cross-cultural experience and background, and arguably his very legitimacy as a contemporary artist. Laude's insistence on adhering to neat categories (linguistic, national, artistic) in engaging with Ndiaye, coupled with Ndiaye's steady defiance of these categories, point to broader tensions between structuralism and area studies, on the one hand, and poststructuralism and postcolonial studies, on the other. The conversation also invites careful scrutiny of the problem of Eurocentrism, in the sense that Laude's structuralist position is in fact anti-Eurocentric: colonialism is condemned for destroying local traditions, which are in turn revered at the expense of allegedly derivative expressions emerging from the same societies. Ndiaye nevertheless holds his own against Laude's aggressive paternalism, and manages to call into question a number of the art historian's assumptions around the perceived axes and obligations of artistic identity.

中文翻译：

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艺术、标志和文化：伊巴·恩迪亚耶和让·劳德对话罗杰·皮劳丹

这份文件由法语原文翻译而来，是塞内加尔画家伊巴·恩迪亚耶 (Iba Ndiaye)、法国艺术史学家让·劳德 (Jean Laude) 和主持人罗杰·皮劳丹 (Roger Pillaudin) 之间对话的编辑记录。它在法国鲁瓦扬非洲艺术文化节期间举行（1977 年 3 月），随后在法国文化广播频道播出。对话中最突出的是劳德试图否定恩迪亚耶的跨文化经历和背景，以及他作为当代艺术家的合法性。劳德在与恩迪亚耶打交道时坚持坚持简洁的类别（语言的、民族的、艺术的），加上恩迪亚耶对这些类别的一贯蔑视，指出了结构主义和区域研究之间更广泛的紧张关系，一方面，另一方面是后结构主义和后殖民研究。这次谈话还引发了对欧洲中心主义问题的仔细审视，劳德的结构主义立场实际上是反欧洲中心的：殖民主义因破坏当地传统而受到谴责，而这些传统却以牺牲从同一地区出现的所谓派生表达为代价而受到尊崇。社团。尽管如此，恩迪亚耶还是坚持反对劳德咄咄逼人的家长作风，并设法对艺术史学家关于艺术身份的感知轴和义务的一些假设提出质疑。反过来，它们受到尊重，但以牺牲来自同一社会的据称派生表达方式为代价。尽管如此，恩迪亚耶仍然反对劳德咄咄逼人的家长作风，并设法对艺术史学家围绕艺术身份的感知轴和义务的一些假设提出质疑。反过来，它们受到尊重，但以牺牲来自同一社会的据称派生表达方式为代价。尽管如此，恩迪亚耶还是坚持反对劳德咄咄逼人的家长作风，并设法对艺术史学家关于艺术身份的感知轴和义务的一些假设提出质疑。